...it's not dark yet, but it's gettin' there...
At the risk of being accused as a mindless parroter of conservative talking points, let me quote Jeff Goldstien's deconstruction of the "chickenhawk meme," which is so clever i plan to adopt it and mindlessly parrot it all over fucking creation.
HOWS THAT ASSSHOLE?! THAT FUCKING PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU YOU PRETENTIIOUS HYPOCRITICAL DICK?!!
[N.B. The above flip-out was directed at a troll, not you, Jeff.]
But i digress. Here's the quote:
Sadly, the chickenhawk argument, though logically puerile, can prove quite rhetorically effective—in the same sense that charges of homophobia and racism have proven effective in debates over gay marriage and government funded affirmative action programs: such charges, cynically delivered, tend to stifle substantive discourse, forcing one side of the argument onto the defensive by changing the focus of the debate from the issues themselves to the character of certain professors of those issues—and in that regard, they help to sustain the status quo.Well put, indeed.The bottom line is, the chickenhawk argument is an impediment to legitimate discourse and debate—and legitimate discourse and debate over national security is a necessity in a free society; and for that reason, those who raise the chickenhawk argument should be treated by everyone—right and left—as intellectual pariahs.
. . .
The gist of most of the 'arguments' in support of the [chickenhawk] meme’s righteousness is that people so willing to speak vociferously in favor of the war should put their money where their mouths are—and merely advocating for the cause doesn’t count. Which means, of course, FDR should’ve strapped on a helmet, picked up a rifle, and had one of his aides wheel his crippled ass in front of a Panzer. BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY!
thats why i keep coming back :) great post
Posted by: troll? on Jun. 30, 2005I used to work with someone who, when accused of being this or that, would say:
"Ok, I'm this or that. But lets stay focused on the point we are discussing..."
They handled that type of thing as well as anyone I've ever seen.
It is an exasperating thing to have interjected into a conversation. Its difficult not to roll one's eyes and give back some attitude. But that's what they actually want. You give attitude; the conversation is sidetracked; they win.
The "chickenhawk" slur is uber-illogical:
If you dislike crime, why aren't you a police officer?
If you don't like homes on fire, why aren't you a firefighter?
If you hate the idea of stray pets, why don't you adopt a cat or 10?
I am sure you think up your own examples, but none of the ones I have given (as well as the "chickenhawk" bomb) even attempt to deal with the real underlying issues. Just diverts it to the people involved in the conversation.
Posted by: Mark on Jun. 30, 2005"If you are so against the ChimpyMcBushHitler-Halliburton war, then why haven't you gone to Fallujah to sign up for the insurgency? Why not help out where help is most needed to end teh IllegalWarForOil? I mean sitting on the Web carping about it isn't doing a single thing to end it. It's about Direct Action ma-an! Go put your action where your mouth is."
Posted by: Desert Cat on Jun. 30, 2005Heh, a good evening for me is whiping a gunny sack full of hairball makers off the bay bridge, but that was a good one DC.
Posted by: Casca on Jun. 30, 2005Each time someone lobs the chickenhawk rhetoric at me on my blog (almost daily, it seems), I've found the best way to shut them up is to mention that I have already pulled a tour in Iraq.
The usual respone (because they don't know when the hell to give up), is why don't I re-enlist if I believe so much in this current war. The fact that I'm now disabled from my first tour usually shuts them up. But now I'm going to have to use that "wheel my his ass in front of a Panzer" quote.
Brilliant!
Posted by: Robbie on Jun. 30, 2005The original chickenhawk term specfically referred to the pussies (like Bush) who actively dodged the draft, but still supported the war. Folks like Limbaugh, Cheney, G. W. Bush, Tom Delay, et al. ad nauseum, who were as gung ho as they could be about 'Nam except for the part where they might be drafted themselves.
BTW, hearing you spout off about the use of the term stifling debate has a wonderfully comic effect. Lanks for the laughs.
Posted by: sigh on Jul. 11, 2005The original chickenhawk term specfically referred to the pussies (like Bush) who actively dodged the draft, but still supported the war. Folks like Limbaugh, Cheney, G. W. Bush, Tom Delay, et al. ad nauseum, who were as gung ho as they could be about 'Nam except for the part where they might be drafted themselves.
BTW, hearing you spout off about the use of the term stifling debate has a wonderfully comic effect. Thanks for the laughs.
Posted by: sigh on Jul. 11, 2005no, thank you!
Posted by: annika on Jul. 11, 2005