...it's not dark yet, but it's gettin' there...

September 08, 2005

Open Gun Nut Comment Questions

Here's two questions i've been wondering about. i bow to your expertise, so please leave any thoughts you might have in the comments.

1. In the event of an extended period of civil unrest, when finding ammunition might become an issue, is it better to have a gun that shoots a common caliber of ammunition like 9mm, or is it better to have something that will use a less common caliber. Think of a donut shop. Normally, you'll always be able to get glazed donuts, but after the morning rush, maybe all you'd find are those disgusting brown crullers that nobody likes.

2. In the city, is it a good idea to advertise gun ownership with a sticker or say, posting a particularly good silhouette in your garage? Would this cause bad people to stay away, or would they simply watch more carefully for their chance to break in and try to steal your gun when you're out?

i will be blogging lightly for the next few days, but i'll check in to read. In the meantime, don't forget to give what you can for hurricane relief.

Posted by annika, Sep. 8, 2005 | TrackBack (0)
Rubric: annikapunditry


Owning a gun means that you rarely will have to use it. 20 rounds will last you through any civil unrest. The bad guys will leave and go to a home without a gun.

Run this test:

Have one of your left-wing friends put this sign on her door:

WARNING No weapons of any kind are allowed in this home.

You put this sign on your door:

WARNING This home contains lethal weapons and the occupants are trained to use them.

Observe the results and report back to us.

Posted by: Jake on Sep. 8, 2005

I've alway thought it would be best to have the calibers that NATO uses, seeing that they would be produced in millions of rounds, and easy to locate. A 9mm pistol and carbine, a 308 rifle, a 223 rifle, and a 12 gauge shotgun. I think you should also have a powerful pellet gun and a black powder rifle, with a little learning you can make your own black powder and shoot anything you can get down the barrel. As for advertising i do not and will not, i have a conceled weapons permit and a gun safe, still there are times that you might not be at home for several days and you cant take all your firearms with you. I own all the aboved mentioned firearms plus several other calibers such as the 30-06 and 30-30 which i should be able to find lots of bullets for.

Posted by: Vaughn on Sep. 8, 2005

Oh and one other everyone should own at least one of or several, a 22 long rifle and pistol with as many rounds as you want to buy, i buy them by the thousands. If I may ask, Annika, what will be the reason for you purchasing a pistol? If you have a permit to carry or if the pistol will most likely be used in your house will detirmine the pistol you should buy.

Posted by: Vaughn on Sep. 8, 2005

Why not one of each?

But make sure that you are actually willing and able to pull the trigger when facing a real live human being. I've got a family friend who is a higher up in a police force here in socal who says that more often than not homeowners are shot with their own guns because they think they don't actually need to pull the trigger.

Posted by: KG on Sep. 8, 2005

1.)Instead of thinking about getting to a gun store to find ammo, you're going to have to think about getting lucky by finding some in a place most people would least expect it, or having someone else take pity on you and give you some of their own, or find someone to trade with. If N.O. illustrated anything it was that Wal-mart (et al.) was looted fairly quickly and even if anything uncommon was left the looters are likely to still be in the vicinity. They would most likely not be the crowd to mix with while unarmed. Continuing in that vein, common styles of ammo would be one of the most valuable supplies to have in that situation when it comes to trading. Let's face it, cash may not get the job done.
2.)I can't say how many more people would be deterred rather than lured, although I'd bet that a sign would cause more of the former than the latter. The main reason that I would put up a sign like that is to actually warn anyone that's genuinely looking for help and is not there to loot (or do worse.)

Posted by: Trevor on Sep. 8, 2005

Short of an end-of-the-world, Mad Max type scenario in which the only source of ammo resupply, ever, will be what you can scavenge, I think it's probably unnecessary to worry about selecting a common caliber for your self-/home-/civil defense gun. Jake is right: You're unlikely to fire many rounds even during an extended period of civil unrest. Predators tend not to hunt things that are likely to kill them, and this is doubly true of bipedal predators: They're interested in quick, easy victims, not extended firefights. A hundred rounds for your designated self-/home-defense gun(s), stored securely in your home, probably is enough for all but the worst-case scenario. In which case you can pick any caliber you want, as long as you buy and store the ammo before the crisis hits! (And if the Mad Max scenario does come to pass, it shouldn't be hard to scrounge a gun in a common caliber. We've got 200+ million of them in this country.)

As to advertising that you own a gun, I don't do it and neither do most gun owners I know. However, at least in my case, that decision is based on very imprecise guesstimates of the probability and likely costs of a wide variety of possible events. Reasonable people probably could disagree. Whatever you decide, I think you need to weigh at least the following factors in making the decision.

The first is that advertising your gun ownership may attract the attention of thieves. Guns are highly fungible on the black market, and criminals are always looking for sources. That's a negative.

The second issue is that advertising your gun ownership may deter some criminals. Of course some criminals will be too drunk/high/stupid/aggressive to be deterred and, again, some property criminals may have the option of waiting for a better time. Nevertheless, there should be no doubt that many criminals will be deterred by the knowledge that their intended victim is armed. That's a positive.

The third issue is that, by advertising your gun ownership, you may lose the element of surprise against extremely aggressive criminals who aren't deterred by the prospect of an armed homeowner, and who instead merely become more careful/violent. That's a negative.

Personally, I prefer to retain the element of surprise and reduce the possibility of attracting unwanted attention. If a criminal would be deterred by a sticker in my window ("These premises insured by Smith & Wesson"), I figure he'll be even more deterred when he's looking at the business end of my Colt Commander. If he's the sort who wouldn't be deterred by a sticker, at least he doesn't have any advance warning of what he faces, which could prove to be a tactical advantage for me.

There are lots of assumptions embedded in the foregoing, but I won't get into all of them now.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 8, 2005

"I've got a family friend who is a higher up in a police force here in socal who says that more often than not homeowners are shot with their own guns because they think they don't actually need to pull the trigger."

Horseshit. That's not directed at you, KG. I'm sure your family friend actually said that. It's just that he's flat wrong. It's probably unintentional; the amount of bullshit that the anti-gunners have spewed into the public consciousness is absolutely staggering. The problem only gets worse as claims that were wrong from the get-go are passed around, exaggerated, and even more grotesquely distorted, like a giant game of telephone. (This phenomenon isn't limited to gun issues, by any means. The amount of obvious and unadulterated garbage that many Americans believe -- and repeat with complete self-assurance -- boggles the mind. If we weren't so gullible, there'd be no need for Snopes.com.)

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 8, 2005

1.) Pick a caliber you like and make sure you keep at least 100 rounds at all times. Unless the govt totally collapses 100 rounds should be more than enough. After all it only takes one bullet to kill someone and most bad guys are going to run when they hear the first shot. That is if they are lucky enough to hear it.

2.) Don't advertise your gun ownership the element of surprise is a very powerful weapon indeed.

As an aside most people are not shot with their own guns when they have pulled out that weapon in self defense. I have read tons of law enforcement data over the years due to my job and I have never seen anything that supports that statement.

Posted by: Andy on Sep. 8, 2005

Here's what you do. Get yourself a flamethrower. Go out on the porch right after dark every night and fire it in the air. Nobody will fuck with you. As a bonus, homemade napalm isn't that hard to mix up. It's just gasoline and soap flakes.

This is a no shitter. A buddy of mine did this every night in Vietnam, and was never attacked.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 8, 2005

I was gonna write something extensive here but I would just be repeating what Andy and Matt said. Soooo.....what they said.....Plus....
you really should spend some time with a .45ACP like a nice old fashioned M1911 just to see if you can hang with it. I have many handguns but the old Colt will always be special to me.
Just don't limit yourself to one caliber/model/brand. Variety IS truely the spice of life.

Posted by: TBinSTL on Sep. 8, 2005

You know TB, I feel the same way about a colt government model. It's a first love, and if you couldn't hit him, well by God he'd feel some pain when you shoved that front site post up his ass!

Honestly, anyone who wants a home defense weapon needs to buy a shotgun. Any other weapon requires way to much practice and mental focus. It's hard to miss with 00 buck. You just close your eyes, and shoot at the noise.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 8, 2005

For pure home defense, I agree completely, although I stick to #4 or #6 shot so I don't have to worry about hurting my roomate or dog! 00buck goes through walls too well for my taste. The .45 is close at hand though because he'd be jealous if I shot a bad guy and he did get in on it. Seriously, that's what he said, for such a manly gun he can be kinda bitchy! Glad he doesn't read blogs.

Posted by: TBinSTL on Sep. 8, 2005

Fine! let's see if you can make a 230gr bullet fly out of your mouth at anything close to 900fps.....jackass!!
You're on you're own mister....unless I get that tactical holster I've been wanting....and don't scrimp on the mag pouches!

Posted by: Tim's.45 on Sep. 8, 2005

1)Very few people have expertise in this area. So you basically get a lot of personal opinions. So I would suggest owning a gun in a common caliber and also owning thousands of rounds of ammo also for that gun. The thing with ammo is that it can be stored easily and your gun is useless with out it.

YOu could also own guns in less common calibers, but not neccesary own the ammo to go along with that gun.

2)No, when you pull out your gun (on the street, in your house) you want it to be a surprise. If it is a surprise for your attacker their reaction time could be slower (look at a prepared reaction vs a surprised reaction, most surprised reactions are slower).

"Honestly, anyone who wants a home defense weapon needs to buy a shotgun. Any other weapon requires way to much practice and mental focus. It's hard to miss with 00 buck. You just close your eyes, and shoot at the noise."

As to this comment.....well from everything i have read that could be true (based on the gun), but is FALSE in most cases. Typical spread over room like distances still means you have to aim the shotgun like a rifle.


"Mossberg Maverick, 12 Gauge, with a 19.5" barrel, no choke"

"This is the entrance wound for the 00 Buck. Notice, again, about a 2 1/2" spread from 12 feet."

For home defense shotguns are great (and nearly impossible to beat in most people opionions)...though in a civil unrest situtaion they do have a shorter range (for most people) than a rifle would, which could be a disadvatage.

Posted by: cube on Sep. 9, 2005

I have a confession. I loaned my Colt Combat Commander to a "friend" who was going hunting for big game out in wilds, and wanted a sidearm because he was afraid of bears. I gave him fifty rounds of FMJ/HP mixed, and two mags with the instructions not to bring any ammo back or clean the weapon since I'd do that. I also gave it to him in the highspeed leather fannypack hide-a-gun deal.

Two weeks after he returned from his two weeks in the wild, he hands the fannypack back to me, and it looks like it's had a hard two weeks in Nawlins. I open it up, and yes it is soaking wet inside. I haven't had the heart to clean it for the past six months, and I feel like I left my kids with a child molestor as a baby sitter. I forgot that he was a fucking air force asshole and didn't know shit about care and feeding of weapons.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005

A better idea:

Sign on the outside of a store:

"3 nights a week I will be inside with my 12 gauge Shotgun. You guess which nights."

via Curmudgeonly and Skeptical

Posted by: Jake on Sep. 9, 2005

Cube's quite right about shotguns at home defense ranges. "Close your eyes and shoot at the noise" is bad advice. It's not a 155 with HE projos; you can't just lob rounds into the general vicinity of the bad guy. Even if the shot spread were that significant at home defense ranges, you'd still want to aim at the center of mass: An attacker who absorbs a couple of pellets of buck can still have a lot of fight left in him, because individual pellets of buckshot aren't as lethal as you'd like. Thus, you want all or nearly all of them to connect with the bad guy's vitals. This requires a little effort. See this discussion at Kim du Toit's place.

I don't have any problem with keeping a good rifle and some ammo around for the worst-case scenario; however, it will be extremely rare to encounter a legitimate self-defense situation in which you'll need to engage your opponent at ranges requiring a rifle. That's not to say that it never happens, but it's not at the top of my list of things to stay up at night worrying about.

Casca, you shouldn't tell those sorts of stories. It's obscene.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 9, 2005

Matt, in re: shooting at noise, quit being so literal. Relax, have a cocktail. When they get close enough, you literally can't miss.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005


As has been proven time and time again by police, soldiers and private citizens all over the world, you can always miss -- and usually will. The only way you (almost) can't miss is with a contact shot. And if the bad guy's close enough for a contact shot, you've boned it.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 9, 2005

One of the many reasons why lawyers are loathed is their tedious trait of insisting on the rectitude of their argument no matter how tortured it might be.

The plain truth of what I said is that there is no better close in defense weapon than a shotgun.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005

Please explain what's "tortured" about saying that "close your eyes and shoot at the noise" is bad advice? You're going to tell me it was hyperbole, and everyone should've realized that, right? The problem is that lots of people actually believe that stupid shit. I've met them. I've known them. If you're going to use hyperbole that some people will take literally -- especially when it's directed at people who won't necessarily know better -- you should expect to be called on it.

"The plain truth of what I said is that there is no better close in defense weapon than a shotgun."

No shit. Unless your alter ego is Charlie Gordon, I said that before you did.


Posted by: Matt on Sep. 9, 2005

You shotgun devotees got it all wrong. So what if you can stop the bad guy with your eyes closed or with just the sound of the pump action. Where's the challenge?

Posted by: annika on Sep. 9, 2005

My but you're quite emotional, lmao. I thought that lawyers were supposed to be dispassionate? You know, recent studies have concluded that calcium reduces the effects of PMS.

You don't think that I actually read comments that aren't specifically directed to me do you? It's football season, and I have other priorities.

Frankly, I can think of any number of situations where one would shoot at noise. But it's tedious to argue with the self-righteous.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005

It just so happens that I was cracking a couple bottles of Cab last night with the owner of the flame thrower story, and he corrected me. They were M204 multi-shot flame weapons. Basically rockets made to fire through the slits of bunkers like a bazooka, and explode as an incendiary. They had stacks of rounds in the bunkers, so they went out every evening and fired them in the air in-direct fire style, thus burning back chunks of the jungle. Every night, they'd shoot at whatever was closest in. Alas the multi-shot flame weapon was short-lived. The propellant was so corrosive that it ate through the seals causing leakage into the four-shot cartridge. Several LCpls were launched downrange along with the msfw before we quit using it.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005

Nah, just wanted to see how a you'd react to a taste of trash talk. You seem to know a little about that subject. ;-)

On the rocket launcher, do you mean the M202? If we're talking about the same thing (I'm pretty sure we are -- there aren't that many four-barreled rocket launchers around), it makes an appearance in Ah-nuld's 1985 gem, Commando. Rae Dawn Chong uses it to stop the paddy wagon that's taking the Governator to jail after he breaks into the secret armory in the gigantic-yet-somehow-hidden room of the sporting goods store. (In the movie, the ammo isn't incendiary. But of course that's the least of the realism problems in that movie. They don't get much cheesier.)

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 9, 2005

Heh, I humped that empty fiberglass box around the hills of Quantico off and on for a summer. 202, 204, whatever it takes, lol. It was pretty cheesy too, like a Mattel toy. It didn't weigh anything without the rounds in it.

Now the 109mm anti-tank gun, THERE was a weapon. You pulled out on the plunger after siting, and it fired a .50 cal spotting round. When you saw the flash off the armor you pushed in on the plunger and it fired the anti-tank round. Best of all, it came with fleshettes, mwahahaha.

The best personal defense advice is to move to a better neighborhood.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 9, 2005

I have a riot gun (pistol grip short barrel shotgun) for home defense, It is the best choice in my opinion. I would NOT advertise that I have a weapon. This merely tells theives that you have something they might find very valuable, and you are not in your home all of the time, so that might induce them to burglarize.

Posted by: Kyle N on Sep. 10, 2005

Matt's right about the eroneous advice from the police chief. Cops like to know that homes are unarmed or that there are safety locks on guns, but what he said about most people being shot with their own gun is pure crap. The true statistic he is citing found that guns in homes accounted for more injuries and fatalities of family members and owners than criminals, but that statistic has absolutely no bearing on whether a gun makes your home safer from robbery, it has more to do with the likehood that someone will hurt themselves or another family member either a) accidentally, b) attempting suicide (more likely in males, who use guns in suicide attempts more often than women, and have a 10 to 1 ratio of first time success), or c) in domestic violence, in that order. Take the accidents and suidcides off the table, and compare intentional shootings, and dead robbers outnumber dead family members by a wide margin.

What is absolutely true is that some kind of notice of armed respose outside your home will keep the bad guys from even trying. An NRA sticker speaks volumes to cowards who prey on others.

The statement about not having to pull the trigger reminds me of the statistic that simply brandishing a gun stops more crimes than actually using one (i.e. shooting someone) by orders of magnitude. If that statement leads you to think you can protect yourself without having to hurt anyone, then donate your guns to a youth shooting program and get a can of mace; just make sure you know which side the stuff comes out.

Frankly having a dog is the number one deterrant to home invasion or robbery. If you are going to keep a gun for home defense, your level of confidence and experience with your gun is more important than what kind of gun it is. Being able to clear a jam in the dark or reload it and bring it to battery while under fire are more important factors than the effectiveness of the projectile. A .22 that you can shoot with confidence is more lethal than a shotgun pointed at a noise.

As for availability of ammo, as someone pointed out, 20 rounds is more than adequate for an insurrection. In a post-apocalyptic scenario I'd favor a flint-lock, since you can make the gun from scratch, find agates or other stones to make your own 'flints', and even make your own powder if you know how to leach potasium nitrate from bat poop.

Posted by: Scot on Sep. 10, 2005

Annika and all you others,

Pick up a book called "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. This former police chief has a lot of wisdom regarding the use of deadly force and the circumstances surrounding it, as well as the consequences thereafter.

Posted by: leemc85615 on Sep. 10, 2005

Fuck, accidental discharge!

I have a colt 1911A1 government model chambered in 9mm (it was a gift). I used to keep it loaded on the nightstand until in a rare moment of cognitive activity I realized that I'd probably shoot myself when half awake. It had a very light trigger. This was when I lived in Chicago, and listened to gunfire every night from the comfort of my living room. The solution was to remove the mag so I'd have to actually "load" the weapon prior to action. This adds the advantage of audibly serving warning. There is nothing like the sound of a bolt going home, a slide chambering a round, or the racking noise of a shotgun to serve notice.

Consequences? Be sure that there's only one story, if there needs to be one, and that it is supported by the evidence at the scene. Be too distraught to talk to the coppers except to say, "I was in fear of my life. I'm not up to giving a statement now, but I'll be glad to give one tomorrow when my lawyer is available."

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 10, 2005

If you weigh more than 120 pounds. Your Armegeddon sidearm should be a .45. You can keep 200 rounds lying about for not even 50 dollars.

I would never advertise.

I have actually seen this sign in the windows of some homes in town:


Lord help them.

Posted by: Bob on Sep. 10, 2005

Casca, you cracked me up with the need to explain why your 1911 was chambered in 9mm. Excellent advice though on the aftermath of an armed defense. An officer once told my Dad that as long as the dead guy was found in the house there wouldn't be any problems. He said, "Now I'm not telling you to shoot the guy outside, to drag him into the house. But, if you shoot him inside and he stumbles outside to die, just make sure he's back in the house when the cops get there."

Posted by: Scot on Sep. 10, 2005

Heh, if anyone is free next weekend, Scot and I are going to get together and leach potasium nitrate from bat poop. Son, you've been reading too many Field Manuals. Do what I do, and buy a couple bags of fertilizer every payday.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 11, 2005


I've heard pelple espouse that theory probably hundreds of times. Every time, it strikes me as bad advice.

The problem is that cops aren't all complete idiots. When people are shot, they bleed. Some dont' bleed very much, especially if it's a small-caliber wound in a non-vital area of the body. But your scenario presupposes that the guy is dead. Bullets kill people by depriving the brain of oxygen through loss of blood. (They can also kill by destroying the brain directly, but in that case there probably won't be be very much stumbling around going on. So we'll leave that scenario aside for the moment.) There's very likely to be a big pool of blood on the ground where the goblin dies; even if there's not a big pool, there'll be enough for the cops to find (and you should assume they will find it), which is all it takes. Either way, it's going to be a big tip-off that something funny's going on. Tampering with the scene just makes you look as if you were trying to cover something up. Don't complicate things for yourself.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 11, 2005

Thus the need for a good 50' garden hose, and a couple gallons of bleach in the laundry at all times. It's also helpful to keep around a couple of those 6' long garbage bags just in case you want to put someone in a dumpster. Face it the coppers are busy enough. Why trouble them over someone who was never there, and won't be again?

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 11, 2005

Ditto for you, Casca.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 11, 2005

Survey after survey says the the most recognized sound in the world is someone racking a shotgun. So, for home defense having a 12-guage pump is just the ticket, because when the target, er, thief hears you rack a round into the chamber he will have no doubt as to what he faces. I'd recommend Single-0 buckshot, though, over 00 because you get slightly less recoil and something like twice as many pellets (this is SFPD's preferred load, BTW).

As for pistol calibers, the classic advice is to use the most popular bullet in the world, the 9mm. Since I personally believe that the 9mm is offensive before the eyes of God, I would avoid it like the plague. Besides, you're not just anywhere in the world, you're in the United States, and in this country a true pistolero will hold faith with the memory of John Browning, and that means the .45ACP.

Personally when I keep a pistol in the house I do not leave a round in the chamber. The act of racking the slide helps wake me up, takes only a moment, and makes the glorious sound for the tar--damn, there I go again--for the thief to consider. While Jeff Cooper would disdain this as keeping a pistol in Condition White (not immediately ready for combat), I believe I first read this advice in a column by Masaad Ayoob (mentioned by others).

Last, consider your local law enforcement. I believe Sac PD still carries the Sig 226 in 9mm, the poor fools. Them aside, Sac SO, Folsom PD, Galt PD, all carry .40S&W; ditto numerous surrounding county agencies, like Amador SO or Lodi PD. .40S&W has become the caliber of choice for law enforcement, which means in time of insurrection if you've got a gun in that caliber you can strip the fallen for ammunition. This is morbid but reality.

Much like a part of our anatomy, everyone has an opinion. Here's two clear facts: First, in this country, you can generally get any kind of ammunition for any kind of gun (exotics, like .38 Super, aside). Second, the best gun is the one you are most comfortable with and are thus willing to practice with. For the same reasons that law students are encouraged to take Trial Advocacy and/or participate in moot court competitions: you play how you practice. When it comes to handling a pistol (or any gun) for self-defense, you should practice often, because you may only have one chance to "play."

Posted by: bob on Sep. 11, 2005

Okay Matt, you can relax now. We're not going to alter the scene after the shooting. I think the underlying point is, if you're going to shoot a bad guy, don't shoot him in the back out on your front lawn. Now if you'll excuse me, Casca and I are going to bark some squirels for the stew pot with our fertilizer powered muzzle loaders. ;^)

Posted by: Scot on Sep. 12, 2005

"if you're going to shoot a bad guy, don't shoot him in the back out on your front lawn."

That is excellent advice. (I also liked Casca's recommendation not to talk to the cops without first talking to a lawyer.)

If'n ya want potassium nitrate, I recommend going to an old-time hardware/farm supply store and buying some stump remover. Not the modern kind that decomposes 'em; the old-fashioned kind for burning 'em out.

But the bat poop is always an option. It doesn't even have to be bat poop; from what I understand, pretty much any kind of manure from hoofed critters will do. That, and lots of pee. Plus patience and a strong nose.

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 12, 2005

22 long rifle is hard to beat for availability and expense. While they won't stop a charging rhino, homo sapiens is a different story, whether pistol or rifle. Many assassin and 'tunnel rat' pistols were silenced 22. Make sure to obtain at least 40 gr, 2000+ fps, hollow point.

Posted by: will on Sep. 13, 2005


let us all know where we can find those 2000+ fps 40gr .22lr rounds.

Posted by: Jasen on Sep. 13, 2005

Yes, please do!

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 13, 2005

LMFAO, how does one "bark a squirrel"? Do they do that at The University Club?

Well a good point has been raised. There is nothing like a soft nosed lead round to defeat the science of ballistics.

Oh yeah, and if'n you want to home brew potassium nitrate, all you need is lots and lots of mammal piss.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 13, 2005

"if'n you want to home brew potassium nitrate, all you need is lots and lots of mammal piss."

True. Poop just speeds it up.

I had to live in a $!@#)&^@$ townhouse . . .

Posted by: Matt on Sep. 14, 2005

Howard Hughes used to save it in Mason jars.

Posted by: Casca on Sep. 14, 2005

"Survey after survey says the the most recognized sound in the world is someone racking a shotgun."

That is not true. The most recent surveys now show that the most recognized sound in the world is the sound of a barking squirrel. Or is that a fart, i can't remember now.

Posted by: annika on Sep. 15, 2005

my mistake, was looking at 2000+fps 40 gr 22 MAGNUM, rounds can be found at;
though they are not cheap...

The 22lr rounds I will likely be picking up are;
unless someone has suggestions for better rounds at around the same price or other extenuating considerations.

Posted by: will on Sep. 16, 2005